Over the past
year or so I have written to just about every webmaster in Regions
1-6. A couple of them recommended that I join the Webmaster list/discussion
group on the onelist site as it would enable me to contact them all at
one time.
The following is a copy of the letter I have sent to most of the web masters. I usually start off with a couple of paragraphs pertaining to the forest I am writing to and then continue as below.
"Take a look at the Recreation maps on the Fremont, Gallatin or Gifford Pinchot Forests. They are excellent showing the location of the campgrounds and have links to pages with detailed CG info. If you link a map to a table of CG info, or CG info pages similar to those in the Roseburg Oregon District of the BLM you will have the ultimate web site for CG information.
As an RVer the most noticeable lack of information is what size rig a CG will accommodate. Even the forests that include this information in their web sites usually grossly understate the size. We need to see HONEST listings of the max size rig a CG will accommodate. We also see comments about extra charges for second vehicles, but a second vehicle is not defined.
You may have noticed that the camping public has changed over the years. In the 50's most campers threw a sleeping bag on the ground or in a small pup-tent and called it home. Pretty soon we would see family groups with their larger tents, gas stoves, lanterns, and many of the comforts of home. When these people went camping they drove their pick-up or car into the CG and a second vehicle was very easy to describe.
Now a large percentage of campers are in some type of Recreational Vehicle. The RV may range from a PU camper, a pop-top trailer, to a travel or 5th wheel trailer, or a motorhome. Which brings us to the problem of what is an additional vehicle. I go into more detail on this matter below.
I have been in contact with the WO, various RO's and several SO's in my attempt to offer suggestions to improve the FS Web sites. What follows is the basic part of the letter I have been sending them.
I realize that everyone who visits your web sites have their own agenda and look for different things. Since my main interest if Recreation/Camping, I will confine my comments to that area. I am a retired Forest Service employee and have gotten very involved with the RV lifestyle and I have become active in a couple of RV Forums on the Internet. Since it is known that I am a retired FS employee and most of my camping is of the "boondocking" type in FS, BLM, and NPS campgrounds and State and County parks I have become sort of a focal point for individuals asking questions. As questions come in concerning camping in public campgrounds, I try to find a web site I can refer them to for their answers. Unfortunately, many of the web sites I find lack the information people are seeking, or the information is inaccurate and misleading.
Most people I get queries from are not all that familiar with the National Forest system. They usually have a good idea what state a forest is in but have no idea of what or where the various Ranger Districts are. Somewhere in the opening pages there should be a hyper link to a forest map showing its location and the location of the campgrounds. The Lolo, Fremont, Gallatin, Lassen, Klamath and Inyo have good examples of how that could be done. The map should then have links to a table of CG information similar to that on the Shasta-Trinity web site, or to pages with detailed CG info similar to those on the Fremont or Lolo web sites. One of the main bits of info we look for in the table is an HONEST indication of the size RV a CG can accommodate.
Once we get to the CG info concerning the NF of interest we have several questions peculiar to the RV community. The various web sites put out information in various ways. The site for the Shasta Trinity has a general information section on the page before their CG info. An excellent idea and format, even if some info is lacking. The most common question is "will my rig fit in there". A few of the sites do indicate a max RV length for the campgrounds, but not many. This information is best listed in the CG tables or CG pages with the detailed info. Unfortunately, this info is usually inaccurate. I have been in campgrounds with my 27ft MH and have seen larger rigs in the same CG, while the max length listed on the web site and other literature is 21ft. We need to see an HONEST max length listed. Another question is what does the max length mean. Lets say the max length is listed as 30ft. Most RVers either drive a PU towing a trailer, or drive a motorhome & tow a car, commonly referred to as a "TOAD". I have a 27ft MH but with the TOAD (1983 Toyota Tercel) the rig is 41 ft long. Will it fit in the 30ft max length. Maybe a better answer would be to list the max length/width of the parking pads/areas. If you want to see some really detailed CG info go to http://www.gorp.com/dow .
We then see statements such as "2 vehicles per site" or "a fee is assessed for additional vehicles". So the next question is, "What is a vehicle?". The answer to that varies from forest to forest, region to region and BLM to FS to NPS. In some areas a PU with trailer is considered one vehicle while a MH with TOAD is two vehicles. Go down the road to the next forest and they are both considered as one vehicle and the next forest says they are both two vehicles. This question becomes important when we pay our fees (is my MH +TOAD one or two vehicles?) or when we are camping near friends or relatives and they come out to visit or have dinner with us. In some cases we have been told we have too many vehicles in the site and the extra vehicle will have to leave, even if they are only visiting. In other cases there is no problem as long as the extra vehicle does not stay overnight. We need some consistency in the regulations for this. Does the fee for extra vehicles apply to visitors for dinner or only for overnighters? A web page for the Indian Creek Recreation Area, Carson City District, Nevada BLM contains the following information:
"A recreation vehicle plus the vehicle pulling it or being pulled is considered one vehicle."
"The capacity of each campsite is dictated by the parking space and tent pads. Tents must be set up on designated tent pads and vehicles must be parked on the paved parking spaces without extending into the access road." This is better than the two vehicle limit. I like to go Salmon fishing in the fall and if the fishing is good I may call a friend or relative and tell them to come on up. With this information I know that if I pick a site large enough to hold the extra vehicle I am OK.
"The camping stay limit is no more than 14 days within a 28 consecutive day interval. The Park Ranger has the discretion to extend the day limit during weekdays or the off season if the campground is not full". This also is valuable information. If the fishing is good I may want to stay longer than 14 days. This lets me know there is a good chance I can get an extension if I ask for it.
If these statements are in agreement with Forest Service policy we would like to see them on every Forest Service Web Site.
Another bit of information that is helpful for RVers is a listing of Dump Stations in the area. The Inyo and Gallatin web sites are good examples of how that might be accomplished.
If you have any questions or comments, pleas feel free to contact me at;
Donald D. Loscar
1677 Tionontati
South Lake Tahoe,
CA 96150
530-577-3424
[email protected]
Since I wrote that
letter, a new situation has popped up. As time progresses people
are getting more and more sophisticated toys. Now some people would
like to know the Lat & Long of the CG. That way they can program
their GPS & mapping program to show the route from start point to destination
and they can also use the info to get the aiming data for their satellite
dishes.